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py72130  初上贼船  2007-11-16 12:08:06 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国北京

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

Post by miffy;2744550
不明白,我们还在这里搜肠刮肚的给你想办法,原来你男朋友自己都不想回来。 那你操心什么?
  

我是想如果两个人真的要往长远了发展关系,呆在荷兰应该比在中国好,至少从福利待遇方面来说。如果要去荷兰就要早去,趁着还年轻,成本还不是那么高。去那里上个学什么的也还来得及。如果在中国耗了几年,再决定要走,时间全都耽误了。成本越来越高了
jingjing1  见习海盗  2007-11-16 12:08:32 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 荷兰

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

Post by slyang81;2744478
I am at work, so no chinese input, apologies first. I think coming to Holland is a bad idea and I'll tell you why.

1. You two have been together for a bit more than 1 year (in Denmark and BJ together), these are all special period of your life (when you were in denmark, you don't have many friends, when your bf is in BJ, he doesn't have many friends). People in these kinds of situation tend to get close to the one they know and build special bonds with each other. I am not saying your feelings to each other is not true, I think it needs more time to prove it's really worth-well for you to take this step.

2. LS has a relatively good job and income in BJ, even though the "guanxi" is difficult to handle, you do not have "real" trouble living in BJ, so is your bf, since he doesn't have to worry about food, accommodation etc.. so he can be relaxed and take his time learning chinese and work once in a while. But after you come here, things are different. Your degree will NOT be recognised here (I know someone with MBA from tsinghua university, not recognised), so basically you have to start all over again. It sounds like your bf might be younger than you and doesn't have any "real" work experience. He might not understand the full extent of the issues you two have to face when you come back. It will be the other way around and he has to take care of you (remember, being taken care of by someone is always nice), even though he somehow agrees to come back with you, he has to come back first to look for job and earn enough money before you can come.

3. I've been working here 3 years now and have also been an exchange student in UK. Trust me, the life here when you are working is completely different than the one you have when you are an exchange student in another country. So the life you are looking for might not be the one you will get once you come here.

4. Dutch is quite different than english, it will take at least 6 months to 1 year to pass the language test of IND, and the trends is that the regulation will only get more strict before any better. The general impression here when people see a dutch guy with an asian girl is that the asian girl is trying to get the ID. Even when you are trully in love with each other.

5. Coming here means leaving everthing you have now behind (family, friends, job etc..), I think it is obvious for people on this board how difficult that is. Plus if you are in trouble, your family and friends can always help. But if you are in trouble here, the only one you have is your bf (assming he is still your bf then), his mom and dad won't come for help. That's the way it is here.


Suggestion:
1. Change your job from state-owned enterprise to a foreign-owned company, "guanxi" there is a bit less than you currently experience.
2. Explain the full extent of your choice (in case it's coming here) to your bf, see how he reacts. Ask yourself what do YOU want, not what you are prepared to do for this relationship.
3. If you really want to come, save some money to get a master degree here, you can use that when looking for a job.

Conclusion: Don't bet everything you have now on a guy you've been with for 1 year.......This is the one bet you can't afford to lose.

I wrote so much because I've seen people like you taking the wrong decision and is struggling to survive here in Holland.
你说的很对.只是如果英语好,MVV的荷语考试很容易,但是移民的溶入考试至少要认真学6个月,但流利地说荷语,不是一,两年的问题.过来后经济问题也很重要,这里机会不是很多,真的看运气.如果说发展和机会,不如中国.为了生存,不得不做自己不喜欢的工作.在国内有人指指点点,在这里受人歧视,决的你是为来荷兰才找荷兰男友.还有很多文化差异,这些多是引起矛盾的地方.如果来了,因矛盾感情不好,回去还能有好工作吗.多考虑.
py72130  初上贼船  2007-11-16 15:24:00 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国北京

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

LS说的不完全正确,我是因为有了这个荷兰bf才考虑要不要去荷兰。我在中国也生活得不错,相信找个条件不错的中国人结婚也不是件难事。可是人活一辈子,我总不想到老了遗憾自己年轻的时候连试一试的勇气都没有。

另外,我其实比较喜欢欧洲那种安静简单的生活,不想做什么大官,也不想挣大钱,就想简单平凡的过一辈子...可是我周围在中国生活的人,不管自己是不是愿意,都是那么的急功近利,浮躁而且虚荣...
eggedreef  海贼王  2007-11-16 15:54:25 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 荷兰

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

Post by py72130;2745151
LS说的不完全正确,我是因为有了这个荷兰bf才考虑要不要去荷兰。我在中国也生活得不错,相信找个条件不错的中国人结婚也不是件难事。可是人活一辈子,我总不想到老了遗憾自己年轻的时候连试一试的勇气都没有。

另外,我其实比较喜欢欧洲那种安静简单的生活,不想做什么大官,也不想挣大钱,就想简单平凡的过一辈子...可是我周围在中国生活的人,不管自己是不是愿意,都是那么的急功近利,浮躁而且虚荣...

那你男朋友现在都不想回荷兰, 你准备怎么说服他呢?

如果你实在愿意试试

就把工作辞掉, 然后申请在这里读个一年书什么的, 以留学的身份到荷兰待个两年, 再说你到底喜欢不喜欢荷兰吧

理想是美好的

现实是残酷的

很多同学的建议, 都很实在, 可是好象你已经做好决定了

那就试试吧

反正就象你说的, 输了就输了, 年轻的时候赌一把, 老了也不会后悔

至于结果, 就另当别论了
eggedreef  海贼王  2007-11-16 15:56:40 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 荷兰

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

坦率说, 等你到了荷兰, 你就会发现, 你不可能马上就获得平安, 宁静的生活的

你先要好好的受它几年折磨, 少则四五年, 多则十来年, 你才有可能, 注意, 是可能, 过上你所向往的生活的

你在国内的生活, 可能是人上人, 学历不错, 长的不错, 什么都不错, 可是到了荷兰, 你就什么都不是了, 什么都没有了

等你到了荷兰了, 你所有的一切的一切, 就是你那个谈了一年的男朋友

即使要赌, 也要赌的明明白白, 而不是头脑发热的赌
waaromik  高级海盗  2007-11-16 17:56:33 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 荷兰

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

Post by eggedreef;2745234
坦率说, 等你到了荷兰, 你就会发现, 你不可能马上就获得平安, 宁静的生活的

你先要好好的受它几年折磨, 少则四五年, 多则十来年, 你才有可能, 注意, 是可能, 过上你所向往的生活的

你在国内的生活, 可能是人上人, 学历不错, 长的不错, 什么都不错, 可是到了荷兰, 你就什么都不是了, 什么都没有了

等你到了荷兰了, 你所有的一切的一切, 就是你那个谈了一年的男朋友

即使要赌, 也要赌的明明白白, 而不是头脑发热的赌


有道理, 我同意
slyang81  见习海盗  2007-11-16 21:07:43 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 荷兰

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

Post by py72130;2744572
Thank u very much for the practical advice! That's exactly what I wanted to hear--from a Chinese person who has already been living in Nl. I will think about ur suggestions seriously.

Thanks again!

, 小事儿
xiao_hong19  高级海盗  2007-11-16 21:39:29 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 荷兰

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

说白了你还是打算来荷兰,那还问什么啊,每个人在荷兰的感受都不同,给你的意见也不同,最好的办法就是你来荷兰生活一段时间不就知道了吗?自己的感受才是真的,喜欢不喜欢,不要问别人,别人的感受不是你的,只有来了这里,你自己的体会才是最真的!
雾轮客  海贼王  2007-11-17 17:56:58 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 荷兰

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

Post by py72130;2744587
我是想如果两个人真的要往长远了发展关系,呆在荷兰应该比在中国好,至少从福利待遇方面来说。如果要去荷兰就要早去,趁着还年轻,成本还不是那么高。去那里上个学什么的也还来得及。如果在中国耗了几年,再决定要走,时间全都耽误了。成本越来越高了
LZ提到了荷兰的所谓福利,在LZ的观念里面,这个福利的具体内容是什么?这个福利真的与想象的那么美好?
py72130  初上贼船  2007-11-19 07:36:55 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国北京

回复: 困惑--关于去留学还是移民

我也不知道所谓的福利是否就像想象的那么好。但是凭我的了解,我觉得年轻的时候努力工作,老了不用为生了病没有钱去治而发愁、养孩子不用为上个好的幼儿园、小学找关系交巨额的赞助费烦恼、不用每天被乌泱泱的人群包围、呼吸着混浊的汽车尾气...
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